Problems with edict package license

Discussion:

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

2012-08-19 23:15:09 UTC

Hi,

It seems that the edict license is unaceptable for openSUSE, so it was
dropped from openSUSE Factory (12.2 and beyond) 7 weeks ago. And all
packages which requires/build require it oo.

https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/125777

The packages envolved are (in parenthesys the delete request #):

edict (125777)
edict-emacs (125778)
gjiten (126216)
javadict (126217)
xjdic (126288)
xyaku (126289)

All of them are in state broken in M17N repository (because of the
_link it has with factory - except edict and edict-emacs that I remove
this _link and it builds ok)

I'm asking what sohuld we do in M17N? Drop these packages too? Try to
build without edict? Move it to Non OSS or maybe Packman? Ask for help
on what to do in similar cases on another list?
(opensuse-factory/-packaging)

I don't use this packages, I note it while doing some cleanups on M17N
(basically desabling sled repositories with unresolvable state)

Regards,

Luiz

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Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

2012-08-20 18:18:04 UTC

Permalink

Hello,

Sorry, I didn't noticed that.

I'm also not a user of this package but as far as I know,
the most part of the edict package is distributed
under the Creative Commons License:
http://www.edrdg.org/edrdg/licence.html

I'll check which file restricts the license of this package later.

Best regards,

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti
Hi,
It seems that the edict license is unaceptable for openSUSE, so it was
dropped from openSUSE Factory (12.2 and beyond) 7 weeks ago. And all
packages which requires/build require it oo.
https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/125777
edict (125777)
edict-emacs (125778)
gjiten (126216)
javadict (126217)
xjdic (126288)
xyaku (126289)
All of them are in state broken in M17N repository (because of the
_link it has with factory - except edict and edict-emacs that I remove
this _link and it builds ok)
I'm asking what sohuld we do in M17N? Drop these packages too? Try to
build without edict? Move it to Non OSS or maybe Packman? Ask for help
on what to do in similar cases on another list?
(opensuse-factory/-packaging)
I don't use this packages, I note it while doing some cleanups on M17N
(basically desabling sled repositories with unresolvable state)
Regards,
Luiz

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Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

2012-08-20 20:32:56 UTC

Permalink

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Hello,
Sorry, I didn't noticed that.
I'm also not a user of this package but as far as I know,
the most part of the edict package is distributed
http://www.edrdg.org/edrdg/licence.html
I'll check which file restricts the license of this package later.
Best regards,
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Hi,

The SUSE Legal Team could help, as they point this package to
exclusion on openSUSE Factory. I've CC'ed Cian Farrell, which can help
use.

Regards,

Luiz

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Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

2012-08-21 17:42:27 UTC

Permalink

Hi all,

I found that
1. Licenses of some small dictionary files in edict are unclear
2. KANJIDIC's license is CC Attribution-ShareAlike V3.0 with special condition

For 1., I think we should just remove such dictionaries.

2. is troublesome.
Mile Fabian once got special permission to distribute KANJIDIC that
includes "SKIP field"; the copyright of that field is hold by Jack Halpern.
The current license of this package come from this special permission.
# The email he sent to Jack is found in jack-halpern-copyright-mbox.

The author originally requires royalty for commercial product:
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/kanjidic_doc.html#IREF14

This dictionary is needed by gjiten at least.

I guess only a few people uses these packages.
I'll ask Japanese community, including other distributions guys, how they think.
# Debian and Ubuntu still have kanjidic packages. Fedora does not.

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

Hi,
The SUSE Legal Team could help, as they point this package to
exclusion on openSUSE Factory. I've CC'ed Cian Farrell, which can help
use.
Regards,
Luiz

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Ciaran Farrell

2012-08-21 17:47:42 UTC

Permalink

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Hi all,
I found that
1. Licenses of some small dictionary files in edict are unclear
2. KANJIDIC's license is CC Attribution-ShareAlike V3.0 with special condition
For 1., I think we should just remove such dictionaries.

Correct - if the license is unclear and/or upstream doesn't respond
(perhaps the project no longer exists or is dormant) then (in the
absence of a statement from the author) we should remove such content
from the package.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
2. is troublesome.
Mile Fabian once got special permission to distribute KANJIDIC that
includes "SKIP field"; the copyright of that field is hold by Jack Halpern.
The current license of this package come from this special permission.
# The email he sent to Jack is found in jack-halpern-copyright-mbox.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/kanjidic_doc.html#IREF14
This dictionary is needed by gjiten at least.
I guess only a few people uses these packages.
I'll ask Japanese community, including other distributions guys, how they think.
# Debian and Ubuntu still have kanjidic packages. Fedora does not.

Yes, thanks. That would be a good way to progress. If there is a
particular dictionary which is necessary and for which the licenses are
not entirely clear, I can contact the legal representatives of the
company distributing the dictionary to try to obtain permission to
redistribute. It would also be interesting to find out whether the
debian community was able to secure redistribution permission for such
dictionaries - and if so, under what terms.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

Hi,
The SUSE Legal Team could help, as they point this package to
exclusion on openSUSE Factory. I've CC'ed Cian Farrell, which can help
use.
Regards,
Luiz

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SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, DE
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG
Nürnberg)
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Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

2012-08-22 14:07:19 UTC

Permalink

I looked into Debian's package.

First, Debian does not ship the minor dictionaries whose licenses are unclear.

Then for KANJIDIC, Debian developers removes the "P" fields, which hold SKIP data,
from the file of KANJIDIC and they distribute their modified one.

If we don't consider why Mike try to keep the SKIP data,
we should adopt Debian's approach basically.

But my concern is "Z?P" fields, such as "ZPP", are not removed from the file in Debian's
package.
To me, I'm not sure but it looks like a part of SKIP data.

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Correct - if the license is unclear and/or upstream doesn't respond (perhaps the project
no longer exists or is dormant) then (in the absence of a statement from the author) we
should remove such content from the package.

Yes, thanks. That would be a good way to progress. If there is a particular dictionary
which is necessary and for which the licenses are not entirely clear, I can contact the
legal representatives of the company distributing the dictionary to try to obtain
permission to redistribute. It would also be interesting to find out whether the debian
community was able to secure redistribution permission for such dictionaries - and if so,
under what terms.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

Hi,
The SUSE Legal Team could help, as they point this package to
exclusion on openSUSE Factory. I've CC'ed Cian Farrell, which can help
use.
Regards,
Luiz

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Ciaran Farrell

2012-08-23 09:59:52 UTC

Permalink

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
I looked into Debian's package.
First, Debian does not ship the minor dictionaries whose licenses are unclear.
Then for KANJIDIC, Debian developers removes the "P" fields, which hold SKIP data,
from the file of KANJIDIC and they distribute their modified one.
If we don't consider why Mike try to keep the SKIP data,
we should adopt Debian's approach basically.

Agreed

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
But my concern is "Z?P" fields, such as "ZPP", are not removed from
the file in Debian's package.
To me, I'm not sure but it looks like a part of SKIP data.

Is it possible to tell what the benefits of such fields are - i.e. is it
possible to remove those fields and still build a useful package?

Ciaran

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Correct - if the license is unclear and/or upstream doesn't respond (perhaps the project
no longer exists or is dormant) then (in the absence of a statement from the author) we
should remove such content from the package.

Yes, thanks. That would be a good way to progress. If there is a particular dictionary
which is necessary and for which the licenses are not entirely clear, I can contact the
legal representatives of the company distributing the dictionary to try to obtain
permission to redistribute. It would also be interesting to find out whether the debian
community was able to secure redistribution permission for such dictionaries - and if so,
under what terms.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

Hi,
The SUSE Legal Team could help, as they point this package to
exclusion on openSUSE Factory. I've CC'ed Cian Farrell, which can help
use.
Regards,
Luiz

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

2012-08-26 15:19:38 UTC

Permalink

We discussed also at opensuse-ja ML.

Is it possible to tell what the benefits of such fields are - i.e. is it possible to
remove those fields and still build a useful package?

I think the dictionary is still useful even if the problematic data are removed.

We can remove the data but can we change the license?

So we should ask the author of kanjidic (main file, not the skip data)
whether or not we can distribute modified data under a pure CC BY-SA (V3.0)
without the special condition.
http://www.edrdg.org/edrdg/licence.html

It will be better if the author publish the modified data under the new license.

Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Agreed

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
But my concern is "Z?P" fields, such as "ZPP", are not removed from the file in Debian's
package.
To me, I'm not sure but it looks like a part of SKIP data.

Is it possible to tell what the benefits of such fields are - i.e. is it possible to
remove those fields and still build a useful package?
Ciaran

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Correct - if the license is unclear and/or upstream doesn't respond (perhaps the project
no longer exists or is dormant) then (in the absence of a statement from the author) we
should remove such content from the package.

Yes, thanks. That would be a good way to progress. If there is a particular dictionary
which is necessary and for which the licenses are not entirely clear, I can contact the
legal representatives of the company distributing the dictionary to try to obtain
permission to redistribute. It would also be interesting to find out whether the debian
community was able to secure redistribution permission for such dictionaries - and if so,
under what terms.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Fuminobu TAKEYAMA

Post by Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

Hi,
The SUSE Legal Team could help, as they point this package to
exclusion on openSUSE Factory. I've CC'ed Cian Farrell, which can help
use.
Regards,
Luiz

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Satoru Matsumoto

2012-08-23 04:53:29 UTC

Permalink

Post by Ciaran Farrell

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
Mile Fabian once got special permission to distribute KANJIDIC that
includes "SKIP field"; the copyright of that field is hold by Jack Halpern.
The current license of this package come from this special permission.
# The email he sent to Jack is found in jack-halpern-copyright-mbox.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/kanjidic_doc.html#IREF14
This dictionary is needed by gjiten at least.
I guess only a few people uses these packages.
I'll ask Japanese community, including other distributions guys, how they think.
# Debian and Ubuntu still have kanjidic packages. Fedora does not.

As Fuminobu wrote, KANJIDIC itself is distributed under CC BY-SA 3.0
License. But the license of SKIP codes, which are included in KANJIDIC,
is CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 and 'The SKIP codes may not be used in commercial
applications without explicit written permission to do so by Jack Halpern.'
# http://www.kanji.org/kanji/dictionaries/skip_permission.htm

In 2004, when Mike Fabian got the permission, SUSE Linux basically was a
commercial distribution and I suppose that's why he had to get special
permission in order to include KANJIDIC in SUSE Linux distribution.

But for now, openSUSE itself isn't a commercial distribution. So I think
there's no problem if we include KANJIDIC (SKIP codes) _just in
openSUSE_. Or, is there any guideline which lay it down that software
under CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 license cannot be included in _openSUSE_ distribution?

Best,

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Satoru Matsumoto

2012-08-23 08:42:43 UTC

Permalink

Hi,

you might have replied only to me. ;-)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse-m17n] Problems with edict package license
From: w.l.engl <***@t-online.de>
To: Satoru Matsumoto <***@gmx.net>
Date: Thu Aug 23 2012 16:57:50 GMT+0900 (JST)

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
I guess only a few people uses these packages.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
I'll ask Japanese community, including other distributions guys, how they think.

Dear friends,
I am one of those "few people" who desperately need edict within GIJTEN,
which also contains wadokujt. Both are definitely necessary for
communicating in Japanese.
Mike Fabian gave me instrutions how to implement GIJTEN, I lost these
and hence are still using open SUSE 11.3 (i586) because I am a simple
user and don't know how implement GIJTEN in a newer version. I lost
contact with Mike, who introduced me to m17nn, after he got married to a
Japanese lady.
Would any body help me please.

For example, if you use openSUSE 12.1, follow steps below:

1) Add M17N repo to your install source.
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/M17N/openSUSE_12.1/

2) Install gjiten and wadokujt packages (and their requirements, if needed).

3) Launch Gjiten.

4) Edit -> Preferences -> Add "/usr/share/edict/wadokujt" as
'Japanisch-Deutsch' (or any other name as you like)

Then, you'll be able to select 'Japanisch-Deutsch' on Gjiten.

By the way, when you are online, you can use http://www.wadoku.de/ for
your communicating in Japanese. ;-)

Best.

w.l.engl

2014-03-27 12:00:28 UTC

Permalink

Post by Satoru Matsumoto
Hi,
you might have replied only to me. ;-)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [opensuse-m17n] Problems with edict package license
Date: Thu Aug 23 2012 16:57:50 GMT+0900 (JST)

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
I guess only a few people uses these packages.

Post by Fuminobu TAKEYAMA
I'll ask Japanese community, including other distributions guys, how
they think.

1) Add M17N repo to your install source.
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/M17N/openSUSE_12.1/
2) Install gjiten and wadokujt packages (and their requirements, if needed).
3) Launch Gjiten.
4) Edit -> Preferences -> Add "/usr/share/edict/wadokujt" as
'Japanisch-Deutsch' (or any other name as you like)
Then, you'll be able to select 'Japanisch-Deutsch' on Gjiten.
By the way, when you are online, you can use http://www.wadoku.de/ for
your communicating in Japanese. ;-)
Best.

Dear Mr. Matsumoto:

I acted according to your advise and everything worked fine: Open Suse
12.3 (Dartmouth) (x86 64)
gjiten 2.6.
Now I need a new notebook/netbook. A knowlegeable friend wrote me, it is
difficult even in Akihabara to find such an item with US-keyboard. If I
buy one in Germany
I can get it only with German-keyboard and don't know if
gjiten would run.
By the way edict and wadokujt are both neccessary. To give an example:
不動産取得税 real estate acquisition tax=correct
不動産取得税 Grundsteuer=wrong, correct is Grunderwerbssteuer
vice versa also happens.

Your advise would again highly be appreciated.

Thank you and best regards

W.L. Engl

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